| Why do many Christian leaders insist on understanding the scriptures as teaching...
...that God punishes unendingly? When you know in your spirit that its WRONG to treat people that way. And if you say "we just don't understand" then your admitting that its wrong to our thinking. And I'm saying that God has given us the ability to know right from wrong. And unending punishment doctrine is wrong. Unending punishment would be an evil act if used against anyone. Its wrong. You know that because God has enabled us to know with our spirit the truth or right from wrong. So unending punishment doctrine
is based upon a misunderstanding of the scriptures. There is a
much better way to understand the scriptures. A way that doesn't contradict or conflict with the Spirit.
www.tentmaker.org
God does judge,punish,correct,etc.... but God's justice is NOT the way its portrayed in mainstream religion.
Chris you are right on about being saved. But, God's justice is way more complex than you think. The words "eternal punishment" simply mean punishment that only comes from God. Eternal does NOT refer to the duration of the punishment. Its an adjective that refers to the things of God. In this case, the administration of God's punishment, correction, refining,etc...
Jackie P - People will be brought to repentance
and faith because of the negative consequences
of rebellion. No one will enter the Kingdom of God until they repent and come to faith. And people will sooner or later. Its God's will. Because he only has whats best for us in mind. Its God's will that ALL repent and that ALL come to a knowledge of God and to submission to him. Not so he can rule us. But because its just right. And he loves us.
Jackie P - I don't have the space or time to expound on this scripturally here. Check out www.tentmaker.org
Randy G - Not so, for I am in total agreement with other believers regarding the Gospel.
Randy, before you judge at least check out what I'm talking about. www.tentmaker.com
I'm saying they have a much smarter way of understanding eternal judgment doctrine. Thats all. They absolutely believe the Gospel.
www.tentmaker.org
Its NOT .com but rather .org
Larry my friend its not that simple. Your in a very small religious box, on this topic. With all due respect. God's truth is a lot bigger than the little box of religion, and I'm only referring to the topic of eternal judgment.
SirWilli - Unending punishment doctrine is not the Gospel. Its doctrine from or regarding "another Jesus" . That doctrine is not from Jesus Christ, the savior of the World.
The Fate of the Wicked
Christians in the twentieth century have primarily three views of the fate of the wicked:
* The Majority View: Eternal Torment
* The Minority View: Annihilation, or Eternal Death
* The Remnant View: Eventual Salvation Through Jesus Christ
The eternal torment view has been the majority view for about the last fifteen hundred years. The main Scriptures used to support that view are:
* Matthew 25:31-46
* Mark 9:38-48
* Luke 16:19-31
* Matthew 12:24-36
* John 3:35-36
* Revelation 19:19-21
* Revelation 20:7-10
* Revelation 20:11-15
The annihilation view has been the minority view since the beginning of church writings after the disappearance of the apostles. Some of the most ancient of the Christian writings taught this view. The Scriptures used to support this view are:
* 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
* 1 Thessalonians 5:3
* 1 timothy 6:9
* 1 Corinthians 5:5
* 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12
* Jeremiah 51:39,57
* Jeremiah 18:13-17
* Jeremiah 25:8-11
* Malachi 4:1-3
* Obadiah 1:15-16
* Matthew 10:28
* Revelation 20:11-15
This may come as a shock to most Christians today, but what is today the remnant view was the majority view for the first five hundred years of Christianity. As a matter of fact, of the six theological schools we know existed in the second to fourth century, four of them believed in the salvation of all mankind, only one taught annihilation, and only taught eternal torment, the school at Rome. For a brief history of how this reversal of doctrines came about, write for the article, The Early Christian's View of Salvation. The doctrine of eternal torment did not become popular until the fifth century when Augustine began to push it. Once the doctrine was firmly injected into the church, the church brought about the Dark Ages, which lasted about a thousand years.
Most Christians, when they are told their doctrines do not agree with the views of the early Christians, do not believe it. They are so certain that the Bible does not contradict itself and that their beliefs are based upon the Bible. Those who are in the majority and minority views often have those Scriptures that support their position memorized. Evangelists always use them at revival time to scare people into their church.
Following is a list of Scriptures that early Christians used to support their view that all mankind will be saved. Do they contradict the beliefs that you presently hold? If they do, does the Bible contradict itself? And if it doesn't, is it possible that the present church majority is wrong?
# 1 Timothy 2:4 God will have all to be saved
# 1 Timothy 2:6 Salvation of all is testified in due time
# Ephesians 1:11 God works all after the counsel of His will
# John 12:47 Jesus came to save all
# John 4:42 Jesus is the Savior of the world
# 1 John 4:14 Jesus is the Savior of the world
# John 12:32 Jesus draws all to Himself
# Hebrews 7:25 Jesus is able to save to the uttermost
# Colossians 1:15 Jesus is the firstborn of all creation
# Colossians 1:16 By Him all things were created
# Romans 5:15-21 In Adam all condemned, in Christ all live
# 1 Corinthians 15:22 In Adam all die, in Christ all live
# Ephesians 1:10 All come into Him at the fullness of times
# 1 Corinthians 15:26 Last enemy, death, will be destroyed
# Philippians 2:9-11 Every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord
# 1 Corinthians 12:3 Cannot confess except by the Holy Spirit
# Romans 11:26 All Israel will be saved
# Acts 3:20-21 Restitution of all
# Luke 2:10 Jesus will be joy to all people
# Ephesians 2:7 His grace shown in the ages to come
# Hebrews 8:11-12 All will know God
# Titus 2:11 Grace has appeared to all
# Romans 8:19-21 Creation set at liberty
# Colossians 1:20 All reconciled unto God
# 1 Corinthians 4:5 All will have praise of God
# James 5:11 End of the Lord is full of mercy
# Revelation 15:4 All nations worship when judgments are seen
# II Corinthians 5:17 New creation in Christ
# Romans 11:32 All subject to unbelief, mercy on all
# Romans 11:36 All out of God, through Him, and into Him
# Ephesians 4:10 Jesus will fill all things
# Revelation 5:13 All creation seen praising God
# 1 Corinthians 15:28 God will be all in all
# Revelation 21:4-5 No more tears, all things made new
# John 5:25 All dead who hear will live
# John 5:28 All in the grave will hear and come forth
# 1 Corinthians 3:15 All saved, so as by fire
# Mark 9:49 Everyone shall be salted with fire
# Romans 11:15 Reconciliation of the world
# II Corinthians 5:15 Jesus died for all
# John 8:29 He always does what pleases His Father
# Hebrews 1:2 He is heir of all things
# John 3:35 All has been given into His hand
# John 17:2 Jesus will give eternal life to all whom His Father gives to Him
# John 13:3 The Father gave Him all things
# I Timothy 4:9-11 Jesus is the Savior of all
# Isaiah 46:10 God will do all His pleasure
# Daniel 4:35 God's will done in heaven and earth
# Proverbs 16:9 Man devises, God directs his steps
# Proverbs 19:21 Man devises, but God's counsel stands
# Psalms 33:15 God fashions all hearts
# Deuteronomy 32:39 God kills and makes alive
# Psalms 90:3 God turns man to destruction then says "return"
# Lamentations 3:31,32God will not cast off forever
# Isaiah 2:2 All nations shall flow to the Lord's house
# Genesis 18:18 All families of earth will be blessed
# Isaiah 45:23 All descendants of Israel justified
# Psalms 138:4 All kings will praise God
# Psalms 72:18 God only does wondrous things
# Psalms 86:9 All nations will worship God
# Psalms 65:2-4 All flesh will come to God
# Psalms 66:3-4 Enemies will submit to God
# Isaiah 19:14-25 Egypt and Assyria will be restored
# Ezekiel 16:55 Sodom will be restored
# Psalms 22:25-29 All will turn to the Lord and all families will worship before Him
# Psalms 145:9-10 He is goo to all and merciful to all His work
# Psalms 145:14 God raises all who fall
# Psalms 145:16 God satisfied the desire of the living
# Psalms 145:10 All God's will praise Him
# Isaiah 25:6 Lord makes feast for all people
# Isaiah 25:7 Will destroy veil that is spread over all nations
# Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory
# Jeremiah 32:35 Never entered His mind to burn people in fire
# Psalms 135:6 God does what pleases Him
What Pleases God?
1 Timothy 2:3-6 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires ("will have" in some translations) all me to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men the Man Christ Jesus, Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time..."
I John 4:14 We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.
John 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hands.
John 6:39 This is the will of the Father who sent me, that of all He has given me, I should lose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ScripturalProofs.html
I have quoted some things here from www.tentmaker.org
grtldy10 - Go back and study the scriptures again. They do NOT teach that. Thats just religious junk your talking about. Check out www.tentmaker.org
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