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Go Back   Freemason Hirams Travels Masonic Forums > Society and Culture > Religion & Spirituality

Religion & Spirituality All Aspects are covered, Please respect others beliefs.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2008, 10:06 PM
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hmmmm3407 is on a distinguished road
Ok so am I suppose to believe that my wonderful dogs who have been my best friends at times have no soul?

All things are created. Animals, plants, all things living have a soul. A life source that supports them as we are supported. The Western culture believes that we are superior to these life forces and must and can control them. We abuse them, i.e. the buffalo, the destruction of the rain forests, etc. Nature is a delicate balance.We must live with all creation and respect it. I am Roman Catholic and Native-American. I believe that an animal and a plant, all of the earth must be respected. I use what I need to survive and help those animals and plants survive. Symbiosis, I guess. My spiritual director ( my priest) also believes as I do. He sees no contradition in my Native-American beliefs and the Christian beliefs.Even thinking about how we have destroyed the earth,( I am not a tree hugger) makes me very pensive. We have imprisioned, enslaved nature. Just go to the dog pound, slaves. Look at the slaughter houses. The strip mining. Yes, we have the resources at our disposal, but must be greedy, abusive. Look at the dog shows, how we have breed dogs for human purposes, what a shame. Aye, que asi no sea.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2008, 10:08 PM
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repent8326 is on a distinguished road
Ok so am I suppose to believe that my wonderful dogs who have been my best friends at times have no soul?

So many people just don't understand what ""soul'''' is.The soul is intellect, will and emotions.of course your dog has these traits.The soul is the mind.You know as well as I do that your dog can think.Your dog just doesn't have a spirit.I know your not a Christian but bear with me.Genesis 2:7............And the Lord formed man of the dust of the ground, (body) and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life: (spirit ) and man because a living soul.AKJVBrackets are my input.Man is a tri part being.This may be difficult but I hope it helps.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2008, 10:09 PM
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Ok so am I suppose to believe that my wonderful dogs who have been my best friends at times have no soul?

You don't have to believe that your dogs do not have souls.All animals have souls. I expect to see my dogs and other pets who have passed away in heaven, when I get there.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2008, 10:11 PM
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chieko5054 is on a distinguished road
Ok so am I suppose to believe that my wonderful dogs who have been my best friends at times have no soul?

believe what you want. do you need someone's permission? try thinking for yourself, sometimes, it's amazing...
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:13 PM
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Ok so am I suppose to believe that my wonderful dogs who have been my best friends at times have no soul?

Well...be logical about this. Only Christians get to go to Heaven. ...Do you think your dog, cat, or pet goldfish is a Christian? Seriously...LOL. No, animals do not go into Heaven. "Dogs especially?".....Nope. NO animals go to Heaven, because they aren't Christians.EDIT: I just read the posts above mine. And...WOW. I am VERY suprised to see that the majority of you think that your pet dogs or cats will go to Heaven with you. You guys must not be Christians.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:14 PM
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Ok so am I suppose to believe that my wonderful dogs who have been my best friends at times have no soul?

I personally would be very disappointed to find no pets in Heaven, but hey, I don't make the rules. Some of my brothers and sisters in Christ have told me that the Bible says no animals are there (Heaven), but I can't recall which passages they quoted to support that claim. Anyway, if you're "not one of...the religious people," then why do you ask, "...am I suppose to believe...?" What you believe is up to you! God bless you!: o )
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:16 PM
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loladrewblue6060 is on a distinguished road
Ok so am I suppose to believe that my wonderful dogs who have been my best friends at times have no soul?

Do plants and animals have souls? Consider how the Bible describes the creation of animals. “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls,” God commanded. On the next creative day, God said: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” (Genesis 1:20,*24) Therefore, all living creatures—human or animal—are souls. Scripturally, plants are not referred to as souls.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:17 PM
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Ok so am I suppose to believe that my wonderful dogs who have been my best friends at times have no soul?

read the Bible...then you will know...we are loved and special.I had a dog for 17 years...
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:19 PM
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Ok so am I suppose to believe that my wonderful dogs who have been my best friends at times have no soul?

It seems that there Is misconception about what a Soul is. Luckily some other posters have already stated the point, but I will to be clear on my own postings on the matter as requested. Forgive me for my lengthy post, I am trying to be thorough. Please read the whole of it, before assuming its meaning.Yes, Dogs have Souls. All living things, in fact, do. They must, because a Soul is defined as the life force, and is the essence of what makes you alive. This is why when some of the “New Atheists” such as Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris make statements about how the Soul doesn’t exist they show only there own ignorance, as do some who say Animals have no souls.Without a Soul, the creature would not be alive.Now, the exact nature of the soul is open to despite, and many would even argue that it is not separable form the Body. That may shock people, but it shouldn’t. As I said, the Soul is defined as the life force, and need not be seen as itself immortal. William Tyndale believed that the Soul died with the body, to await the resurrection at the end when Christ returned, as an example of this sort of thinking.Thus it is possible to conceptualise that no soul persists after Physical death, and immortality need not be linked to it.Nevertheless, most seem to think it does persist after death, and therein lies the question you should ask about your Dogs.Do they continue after they die, and do Humans?If, for instance, those who believe that Physical death is accompanied by the soul sleeping with the body in death awaiting the resurrection, then the Dog is obviously going to simply die at death, and would require God to resurrect him.But, so would humans.However, if you believe the Soul of humanity lives after death, you have some options in how to approach the question.Thomas Aquinas believed that Animals had Material Souls, rather than immaterial souls. When an animal died, their soul would likewise die as it was linked to the animals body and was of the world, but the soul of man ( And woman) persisted after death because, having been made in the Image of God, he was also granted a part f him that share din that divinity, though humanity itself was not divine.Thus, it is possible to see that Animals and humans have souls, but that the souls differ, and only Human souls persist.But as Brilliant as Thomas Aquinas was, he was not infallible, and others, notably Francis of Assisi, disagreed and saw all creation as beloved by God and the Soul returning to God upon death.As for myself, I agree with Francis and not Aquinas. Solomon wrote a text in Ecclesiastes that notes this, and I shall quote the two portions, one form the third chapter, and one from the twelfth. 18. I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. 19. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. 21. Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?This text, form Ecclesiastes chapter3, reveals that man himself is a beast ( some other translations say “Like a beast” or “Like an animal” but the “Like” is not in the Hebrew. Its there for comfort.)But others note that it asks how we know that the Soul of man ascends and the soul of the beast descends, and thus assume that the Soul of Beasts must descend and the soul of man ascends. S, arguments over this portion of the text abound, but I see in it that man is a beast, and himself shares the same fate as the beasts, and should not place him self so haughtily above him or think his ending is somehow different.Chapter 12 says this, when speaking of death… 6. Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 7. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.The spirit returns to God who sent it, and I think this includes for all life. Animals clearly have Souls, and share the same fate as man, and I see no reason to assume that their transitory life on earth is all they have. In fact, I have made moral arguments that state that if this where so, then it would be morally wrong to ever kill an animal, thus denying that animal the only life he will ever know, to continue our existence knowing we are Immortal, and they aren’t, and we aren’t reliant upon this life only. This is acutely the reverse of the argument that makes no since to me that, if Animals had souls then it would not be morally right to kill them, and the fact that we are permitted to shows they do not have souls. This argument made no since to me as we are arguing essentially that because we have immortality we can thus take the life of that which doesn’t. Thus I argue the reverse, that Animals are permitted to be killed for just use, such as food, because this life is not their only life and their death but a moment in a longer existence.Unfortunately, a man by the name of Singer came up with the same argument and got it published, and I disagree with most of his views about ethics, but this argument he has I agree with, even though I did not get my idea form him.Still, I’d say that your dogs will go back to God who sent them in the first place, and you needn’t worry over them, though feeling loss upon their death may be natural.
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